Paul "Pablo" Croubalian

7 years ago · 5 min. reading time · ~100 ·

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How to Tell Shit from Shinola

How to Tell Shit from Shinola

How to Tell Shit from Shinola
I'm an advocate of simple writing. I'm in good company. Simpler is clearer. Simpler is more concise. Simpler is crisper. Simpler is faster to read. Apparently, simpler also pisses some people off. Okay, only one person...

Why he would react so, is beyond me. I have great respect for him. I consider him a friend. That won't stop me from blasting him.

It's a guy thing. 

Most of us don't hold a grudge. Most of us can argue with a friend, then go for beers, right after.

Once is a bad day. Twice is a pattern. Sometimes, even Nit Wits say, "Enough is enough!" They rebut. 

If you want to read the post from way back when that started all this crap, it's here.

Phil Friedman went out of his way to twist things around. Phil loves to equate "grade 3 READING level" with "grade three WRITING level." 

They are not the same thing. But, hey, when did facts ever stop anybody? 

Just to be clear. Here are the definitions of the two words according to Merriam-Websters.

writing 

: the activity or work of writing books, poems, stories, etc.

: the way that you use written words to express your ideas or opinions

: books, poems, essays, letters, etc.

reading

: the act of reading something (not very helpful, BTW)

: the activity of reading a book, magazine, etc.

: a book, article, etc., that is being read or that is intended to be read


I think I see the problem. The definitions are quite similar. They both mention books. I think I'll just capitalize the text going forward.


Don Kerr actually said it best. 

"No app, however, can replace a writer's ability to use the words necessary to capture the magic of their writing."
Don Kerr

Exactly, Don. All the hemingwayapp.com does is point out a text's faults according to the Flesch-Kincaid readability test. It beats the hell out of calculating it yourself. If you really want to calculate it yourself, I explain how here.

It helps with readability. It does jack-shit for subject matter or writing quality.

A poorly thought out post will still be poorly thought out. It will just be an easier to read, poorly thought out post. Same goes for a poorly written one.

Suggesting anything different implies a quantum leap of logic. That leap would be unsupported by anything I wrote on the subject. 

Don't take my word for it. Read the posts yourself. The complete series is here.


Phil often says that Hemingway never said to write at Grade-3 READING level. 

I'm sure that's true. It has to be. Hemingway was a Great Writer. He was not psychic. As far as I am aware, he never returned from the grave .

Hemingway died in 1961. The Flesch-Kincaid test was created in 1976. 

No kidding that he never mentioned it.

He did, however, practice simple writing before it was formalized. And, FYI, I only applied hemingwayapp.com to Hemingway because it seemed fitting given its name. 

I expected a very different result.

Hemingway too was an advocate of simple writing. Don't take my word for it. Take Hemingway's.


Women made such swell friends. Awfully swell. In the first place, you had to be in love with a woman to have a basis of friendship. I had been having Brett for a friend. I had not been thinking about her side of it. I had been getting something for nothing. That only delayed the presentation of the bill. The bill always came. That was one of the swell things you could count on.
Ernest Hemingway in The Sun Also Rises  (Grade 2 READING level)

Or, how about this one?


I thought I had paid for everything. Not like the woman pays and pays and pays. No idea of retribution or punishment. Just exchange of values. You gave up something and got something else. Or you worked for something. You paid some way for everything that was any good. I paid my way into enough things that I liked, so that I had a good time. Either you paid by learning about them, or by experience, or by taking chances, or by money. Enjoying living was learning to get your money’s worth and knowing when you had it. You could get your money’s worth. The world was a good place to buy in. It seemed like a fine philosophy. In five years, I thought, it will seem just as silly as all the other fine philosophies I’ve had.
Ernest Hemingway in The Sun Also Rises (Grade 3 READING level)
Not enough? 
God knows I had not wanted to fall in love with her. I had not wanted to fall in love with any one. But God knows I had and I lay on the bed in the room of the hospital in Milan and all sorts of things went through my head but I felt wonderful...
Ernest Hemingway in A Farewell to Arms (Grade 4 READING level, mostly due to the extra long last sentence. Hacking the Flesch explains why that is so. Replace the "and" after Milan with a period and it drops to Grade 2 READING level)


The Following is an excerpt from my post "You Really Are An Expert! Share Your Know-How, Publish!"


Here’s my favourite passage from “For Whom the Bell Tolls”:

“And another thing. Don’t ever kid yourself about loving someone. It is just that most people are not lucky enough ever to have it. You never had it before and now you have it. What you have with Maria, whether it lasts just through today and a part of tomorrow, or whether it lasts for a long life is the most important thing that can happen to a human being. There will always be people who say it does not exist because they cannot have it. But I tell you it is true and that you have it and that you are lucky even if you die tomorrow.”
Ernest Hemingway in For Whom the Bell Tolls (Grade 6 READING level as is)
I pasted that passage into hemingwayapp.com. It said…
  • ·0 out of 7 sentences are hard to read
  • ·1 out of 7 sentences are very hard to read
  • ·0 phrases have simpler alternatives
  • ·0 adverbs, well done 
  • ·0 use of the passive voice

The Very Hard to Read sentence is in bold

You slow down when you get there because it's hard to read. That’s intentional. That’s because Hemingway wanted you to slow down and absorb it deeply.

That is Hemingway’s genius. Don’t even try it. 

You shouldn't do it. Heck, you couldn't do it!

So don't worry about it!

Let’s try the passage again, but this time, I’ll remove the very hard to read part.

“And another thing. Don’t ever kid yourself about loving someone. It is just that most people are not lucky enough ever to have it. You never had it before and now you have it. There will always be people who say it does not exist because they cannot have it. But I tell you it is true and that you have it and that you are lucky even if you die tomorrow.”
Me, rewriting Hemingway... I am surely going to Hell (Grade 3 READING level)

End of Excerpt

The point is that writing here on beBee, or on LinkedIn, or on Medium, or on your Wordpress site, is all the same. It's business communication. It's about making your point to the maximum number of people.

There are nearly 5 million pieces written every single day. Why should the reader read yours instead of another?

Don't dumb down your stuff. State it more clearly. That's what communication is all about. It isn't easy. In fact, it's difficult.

The point is not that you can write as well as Hemingway. You can't. No one can.

The idea is not to chase a READING level for it's own sake. The web app is just another tool. It's no more nefarious than my laptop, my smartphone, or my in-car Bluetooth voice recorder. Use it if it helps you, discard it if it doesn't.

Did you think I chiseled this post on a stone tablet?

I write these posts for those just starting out. I do not write them for you, Phil. I could care less what you think about them. If anything, if you found the posts valuable I would assume I missed my target.

To readers and would-be writers, I say this.

This stuff is not rocket science. Don't believe anyone who tells you, you can't. No, you will likely never be another Hemingway. Do you need to be? 

Of course not.

You have knowledge and experiences that are valuable. Share them. Write what you know. 

I'll be waiting to read about it.


It's Your Voice. Your Choice!

"If I started to write elaborately... I found that I could cut that scrollwork or ornament out... and throw it away"  - Ernest Hemingway

How to Tell Shit from Shinola

""
#Ernest Hemingway #Hemingway #Simpler #Grade #Phil
Comments

Kevin Pashuk

7 years ago #42

#32
I... will.. resist... the... urge... to... listen... Must.. fight... it... Oh! Dammit. Now it's stuck in my brain.

don kerr

7 years ago #41

#44
Oh hell yes!!!

Phil Friedman

7 years ago #40

#33
Jim Murray. obviously, as you would anticipate, I agree with you .... on this, and probably only this matter. I'd like, however, to supplement it with an observation concerning a social media platform which shall remain unnamed, but which has the initials LI. That platform of late has been criticized by some for having a high number of trolls, and failing to control them. I don't know about that, as I had only one personal pet troll there, who seems to have sniffed out my trail here. What I do know is that on that platform an ethos of phony positivity was pushed by so many, which created a cloying environment of Insipidipity, where the term "passion" is used constantly, but rarely if ever displayed in actuality. (See, run that through your Hemingway app and smoke it!). Which is one reason, I believe, to move to beBee, where I sincerely hope we will resist stomping the life out of writing and conversing by rejecting all forms of disagreement. Cheers!

Phil Friedman

7 years ago #39

#36
@Wayne Yoshida - Actually Wayne, it had to do with osmotic blistering in fiberglass reinforced plastic (FRP) boat hulls, which was for a long time specifically excluded by boat manufacturers from the list of warranted defects. At the time I had a long-running monthly column in Canadian Yachting and its sister publication Pacific Yachting, and in it I called out boat manufacturers on the issue, explaining that it was the result of a defect in one or both of materials or workmanship, and I documented the engineering and scientific work that had been done on the problem in materials engineering circles. And I argued that since it was not a random, mysterious occurrence in the manner of an act of God, but was predictable based on identifiable criteria, and so should cease to be excluded from warranted defects. The hubbub was significant, but I have to say that less than five years later every manor boat and yacht manufacturer in North America and most of Europe was warranting its hulls against underwater blistering, new, more moisture impermeable vinylester resins were being employed, as well as epoxy-based barrier coatings, in the manner I recommended and pioneered (along with several others) in the industry at the time. Sorry to be so wordy here on Paul's thread, but you asked and he is a boat guy and will understand. Cheers!

Paul "Pablo" Croubalian

7 years ago #38

#41
LOL, old jokes, really? I won't reply. My momma taught me to respect my elders. Oh, wait! I did reply. Sorry, Mom.

Phil Friedman

7 years ago #37

#40
@ Paul \ - And I, sir, shall do the same for you! May I add that it is an honour to be associated with anyone such as you, who is old enough to have made the acquaintance of Evelyn Beatrice Hall. Cheers!

Paul "Pablo" Croubalian

7 years ago #36

#36
Phil and I don't see eye-to-eye on many things. We often disagree (obviously). Sometimes we disagree passionately (also obviously). I don't always like what he has to say (and vice versa) BUT, I WILL DEFEND HIS RIGHT TO SAY IT AGAINST ALL COMERS!

Wayne Yoshida

7 years ago #35

#33
Yes - Strunk & White. And maybe On Writing Well by Zinsser.

Wayne Yoshida

7 years ago #34

#20
Yes Phil, I see this as good and emotional (read: passionate) debate. Slightly off- topic, but the was the boating thing about improper tin paints used on the hulls a long time ago? I worked for a brief time in the marine electronics industry - early 80s.

Dean Owen

7 years ago #33

#33
You guys are the best! Learning a lot from y'all!

Jim Murray

7 years ago #32

Wow. I just read this whole stream. This completely embodies the spirit of the classic intellectual exchange, where everybody states their opinion and nobody really puts down anybody else's because everybody here is all grown up and appreciates the concept of different strokes for different folks. For myself, I have worked too hard to get my writing to the point where it flows effortlessly. I have only ever read one book on writing, The Elements of Style, and have probably forgotten most of what learned there. I classify myself as an organic writer, in that I try very hard to transpose my thoughts directly to the (virtual) page. Other people may not have been writers for as long as I have and like to have evaluation tools or evaluation from other humans. And that's cool too. I get that all the time in my advertising work. But for blogging, this is my opinion. No amount of analysis will fundamentally affect that...in fact being able to get it down right out of our heads is the essence of the of what Phil Friedman...hope this puts some of your concerns to rest. We are a band of brothers/sisters here. We may argue, but we will always be brothers and sisters.

don kerr

7 years ago #31

Ahh. Here you go Kevin Pashuk Enjoy https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9YqCP_B7EU

don kerr

7 years ago #30

Ahhh. Here you go Kevin Pashuk Enjoy!!!

don kerr

7 years ago #29

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9YqCP_B7EU

don kerr

7 years ago #28

#28
Pssst. Kevin Pashuk "it's a thmall world after all! etc." Enjoy. Hmm. Wonder if I can actually add an audio stream. I know you'd love that so much.

Kevin Pashuk

7 years ago #27

#27
As long as you aren't in a bikini Phil Friedman... It's like the thong that never ends....

Phil Friedman

7 years ago #26

#25
Well said, Kevin Pashuk, do I see the makings of a photoshopped meme here? Paul Paul \ to stand in instead.

Dean Owen

7 years ago #25

#24
Grade 3 is fine by me! Glad to hear all is well in the State of Denmark.

Kevin Pashuk

7 years ago #24

#24
This recent conversation between Phil Friedman reminds me of some childhood friends who were brothers, and Italian. As the only boy in a family of sisters I was sure they were killing each other, but as it turned out, loud, boisterous, and (from my vantage point) violent exchanges were just normal. I should have taken my cue from their mother, who didn't seem at all concerned. It's been that way on high performing teams I've been part of as well... but if you look closely, you will see the 'conflict' is about issues and opinions, and doesn't get personal.

Paul "Pablo" Croubalian

7 years ago #23

#23
Dean Owen feel. That's why I applied it to actual Hemingway passages. It has an unfortunate name. true. Still, it's a great tool. Also, for the record, the app says anything under Grade 10 READING is Good. I'm the one who aims for Grade 3. (I don't usually plug comments in, but this is at Grade 3. Do you feel belittled?) As I also always say, this is what I do, not what you must do, or even what you should do. Your Voice. Your Choice.

Phil Friedman

7 years ago #22

#21
@ Dean Owen, but for my part I am glad you brought this up. But I personally see a very fundamental difference between between the exchange today between Paul and me, and what happened when the party to whom you refer popped up several days ago to attack me. Notice that although both Paul and I employed some colorful language, I don;t believe that either of us denigrated the work or intelligence or integrity of the other. Our disagreement is basically about how each of us respectively sees writing and what constitutes good writing. And my referring to Paul as a Technophyte seems pretty mild to me, especially since he actually admits to be a Technophile. As for me, I guess what you're saying is that I should give up any dreams of a career in shining shoes. ROFLMAOAICGU.

Dean Owen

7 years ago #21

#19
If you guys are good, fabulous. Like I say, I don't know the whole picture and my presumptuous assumptions are based on what I have seen recently. It hurts me to hear Paul say "That said, I am a little fed up and today, I'm in a bad mood. A rebuttal will follow." and "Sorry, Phil, but that is the biggest load of crap I have ever read. It far surpasses bullchips." or you "But to my mind, he is a dyed-in-the-wool technophyte, who is in love with computer and mobile apps, which he believes can provide guidance and counsel concerning just about everything in life, including how to improve one's writing." You can see why these exchanges made me feel uncomfortable. You are both incredible guys that I am honoured to know. But as I say, if you guys are good, then nothing is rotten in the State of Denmark. But as you know, that rough exchange from last week when a third party suddenly appeared and viciously attacked you. That really shook me. I felt not only saddened that the fellow prompted anger in you, but also for the beBee community. I guess it is inevitable that exchanges of that nature will make their way to any social network, but I like to think beBee is different, and the community spirit we have seen thus far certainly shows as much.

Phil Friedman

7 years ago #20

#17
@Wayne Yoshida - I think that you correctly perceive that this thread might be considered a paradigm of lively disagreement and discussion. Colorful, but not, I should think, in any way really personally abusive. I'm sure that both Paul and I have been told much worse things before. I can tell you for a fact that once I published a very unpopular industry-specific piece telling boat manufacturers that a particular defect, which had historically been excluded from warranty, was not the result of an act of God and that it should be warranted by every legitimate builder. Whew! You should have seen the hate mail. Many of my detractors suggested I undertake a program of physical exercise. But I knew they were kidding, because what they were suggesting is anatomically impossible. Cheers!

Phil Friedman

7 years ago #19

#18
Dean Owen on an update of mine was. "Go f%$k yourself, Phil!", for a reason I never really knew. And that eventually led to the HE SAID HE SAID series, which has now just posted its 15th installment. I think the important thing to understand is that this is an intellectual disagreement, and does not involve personal animosity -- certainly not on my part. Et tu Pablo?

Dean Owen

7 years ago #18

Whatever you say, you guys have been in a bad mood over this difference in opinion and that suggests to me that you really like each other a whole lot. The differences in opinion being highlighted here are really insignificant in the grand scheme of things, so why not agree to differ. I suspect the real issue here is not the subject matter above but the sudden appearance last week of a third party on beBee and the really unseemly comments from that third party that in my mind totally destroyed our beBee community spirit. So why not pick up the phone, and talk frankly with each other about the real issue instead of using Hemingway as a ping pong ball. And forgive me if my perception is unfounded and misguided.

Wayne Yoshida

7 years ago #17

I'm enjoying this discussion, Paul \. I hope a back-up is being kept. Here's one thing to consider -- when one talks about grade levels and the Flesch–Kincaid tests and apps - the definition of "third grade" should be understood. Have those standards changed over the years and are the standards different in different locations? I will never forget the day some cute girl in my 8th grade history class turned around in her chair and said to me, "You always use those big words." Unfortunately, I don't remember what she said, I was in shock . . . .

Kevin Pashuk

7 years ago #16

#15
You should know (and I think you were baiting me) Phil Friedman that when it comes to hockey, all Canadian politeness is tossed to the ice like hockey gloves.

Phil Friedman

7 years ago #15

#9
@Kevin Pashuk - please not to worry. I actually did intend my remarks about Paul's post to be "criticism" -- literary criticism, that is, not personal. I also intended it to be friendly, in the way that a Maple Leafs fan approaches a Canadiens fan. Cheers!

Phil Friedman

7 years ago #14

Paul \ - Part OO - I agree with you that there are people in the world who don't know shit from Shinola, but would add that there are those who do, and still can't tell their ass from a hole in the ground. However, be that as it may, there are several points I'd like to clarify about my (friendly) criticism of some things you say about writing. First, what you say in no way "pisses me off" -- your expression. I simply disagree with some of the things you say, for I believe they are over-simplifications. cont. pt. 0

Phil Friedman

7 years ago #13

Paul \ - Part 0 - For example, you have said, "Hemingway wrote at a Grade 3 reading level..." (https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/you-really-expert-share-your-insights-publish-paul-croubalian). But the fact is he didn't -- at least not by the standard you employ, which is the Hemingway App. To be sure you can pick a paragraph out here and there that registers on the App as grade 3. But if you select enough paragraphs at random, you find that a very high percentage of them score at grades 12 to 15. The interesting thing, moreover, about the App is that if you mix the paragraphs with different ratings, you get an overall score which is clearly some sort of numerical, although not an average of the scores per paragraph. And I bet that overall, Hemingway's writing scores between grade 10 and grade 12. For comparison, Lincolns Gettysburg Address (which is the focus of one of your posts) scores in the App at grade 12. My writing on the whole seems to score at grade 12 in the App. Of course, I would never compare my writing to the Gettysburg Address. Which highlights a key point. The App uses quantifiable metrics, it does not, and cannot deal in terms of qualitative measures. I distinguishes between "use" and "utilize" on the basis of number of syllables. But does not distinguish between "shit" and "dung" as more or less expressive nouns. cont pt 1

Phil Friedman

7 years ago #12

Paul \ = Part I - This leads me to my second point. The Hemingway App was not handed down by God, but was created by man, more accurately a couple of marketing guys for the purpose of writing marketing emails and other material that would gain the most access to the widest percentage of the target market. I have no argument with using the App for that, indeed, I have no argument with using the App period. What I am questioning is setting it up as a standard for "good" writing, which it is not. The App was created on the premise that the vast majority of English readers read at a Grade 6 level or below. Which may or may not be true -- although judging by what I see on LinkedIn, that estimate would be on the high side, and I would go with your view that grade 3 is more appropriate on LI. But either way, my point is to recognize that the App is intended to result in writing that is "accessible" to the lowest common denominator as far as readers go. Fair enough. But that does not mean it is a standard for "good" or even clear writing. Only that it is simple. And I have to ask why simple is better than subtle.

Phil Friedman

7 years ago #11

Paul \ - Part II - As to the statement, which you and others make, that writing at a grade 3 level does not mean one is writing for 3rd graders, that may be true. But that is itself an incredibly simplistic statement. Not to mention false in my view. For why would we assume that someone who reads (and thinks) at or above a 12th grade level finds material written at a grade 3 level interesting? Sure a grade 12 to 15 reader can read and understand that which is written at a grade 3 level, but why would he or she want to? Or, for that matter, enjoy doing so? And why would I want to make sure that a grade 6 reader and thinker would read and appreciate my writing, at the cost of losing the (albeit fewer) grade 12 to 15 readers? The bottom line is always know your target audience, and write for that audience. Or in the alternative, write at you natural level and let the (bull) chips fall where they may. To my mind, engagement is more than impressions and likes; it is drawing the reader in -- to reading and stretching intellectually, and to participating in conversation. I don't know of many who read at a grade 3 level who do that. cont pt III

Phil Friedman

7 years ago #10

Paul \ - Part III -- I do need to apologize to you for saying or implying that you said Hemingway advised people to write at a grade 3 level. For as you have pointed out, you did not say that. You only pointed to how the Hemingway App can be used to improve one's writing, and you only mentioned Hemingway, the writer, alongside of that, saying it turned out that, on the App's evaluation, he wrote at a grade 3 level and therefore it must be okay for the rest of us to do so as well. But I stand by my remarks concerning how using the App as a primary filter will ultimately template a writer's work, and make it common, rather than unique. Of course, if common is what one aspires to, then there is nothing more to say. Cheers!

Kevin Pashuk

7 years ago #9

#7
Phil Friedman, I never misconstrued your viewpoint as criticism... as a matter of fact, diversity of opinion (handled with respect) is what gives beBee much higher value as a platform. The 6 word novel is an urban legend that has taken on a life of it's own. My purpose in quoting is was to demonstrate the effectiveness of words... 6 words can do exactly what you described - create a whole story in your mind. Other times, 1,000 words are not enough to create the scene. I do however, tend to encourage my team to simplify their writing (and speaking). IT folks are masters of techno-speak that can glass over eyes in 2 seconds flat. I suppose then, that it really comes down to communicating in a manner in which your intended audience will understand.

Phil Friedman

7 years ago #8

#6
Jim Murray - thank you for the kind words. Pretty clearly you and I share some common ground in this discussion, that is, I think we both see good writing as involving more than simply conveying information or instruction. The term "engagement" comes to mind. And the simplest way of saying something may not always be the most engaging. Cheers!

Phil Friedman

7 years ago #7

#2
@Kevin Pashuk - Ah, yes, the oft-cited Hemingway 6-word "novel". With all due respect, I think my take on its significance differs from yours. I see it as a demonstration of the power of a few well-chosen words to evoke thought, images, and emotions in a reader. For me, for example, it brings up a story of a couple who lost a child at birth, after having waited years for a pregnancy, then lovingly prepared a nursery room, bought baby clothes, and the like. Then spent years struggling to overcome the grief and pain, and finally after many years, moving on with a single life-reaffirming act. For others, no doubt, a different story will come to mind. But while it is an excellent demonstration of the power of words, it is not a novel. It isn't even a story. It's a parlor trick, albeit performed by a very skilled writer. And it is no accident that it never appeared on any "best seller" list or in the annals of great literature. For the result is the reader's work, not the writer's work. And for me, good writing is engaging and works to carry a reader with it. Indeed, the compliments I value most about my own writing are those which tell me. in this age of the two-minute read, that the reader felt my piece was "on the long side" but carried him or her through to the end, and turned out to be worth the effort. To my mind: Brevity is over-rated, And short ain't always sweet. Sometimes to express a great idea, Takes more than just a tweet. If my friendly -- and apparently misconstrued -- criticism of Paul Croubalian's article about writing at a third grade level stimulates some serious discussion about what constitutes good writing and what does not, then I am pleased -- however people may come down on the topic. https://www.bebee.com/producer/@phil-friedman/conversation-isn-t-just-politely-waiting-your-turn-to-speak Cheers to all, and especially to Paul, whom I invite to have a beer on me, and send me the tab.

Jim Murray

7 years ago #6

I think there's a huge difference between simple writing and simplistic writing. Simple writing is what most great writers do. It has nothing to do with structure and everything to do with feel. Analzying Heminway's writing with some fuckin' app is a complete insult to Hemingway. And if he were still alive he would tell you that. If you want to analyze anything, analyze the feeling that you get after you read someone like Hemingway, because that's all he cared about anyway. In defense of Phil Friedman, he's proven to me time and time again that he's a great writer. He doesn't concern himself with simplicity or analysis very much at all. He just puts down what he's feeling and generally it's right on the money. I've been writing professionally for more than 40 years, and never once in that time have I ever thought about my work in terms of how simple it is. If somebody doesn't get what I'm doing, they simply are not in my target audience. Ergo I don't care about them. Let them bumble along all they want.

Kevin Pashuk

7 years ago #5

Getting your message across so it's clearly understood is not simple. Paul \ does a great job in this post explaining why writing simply is hard work, and why it's important.

Pascal Derrien

7 years ago #4

Was it not Don who mentioned his publisher told him there are more writers than readers.... :-) Not a big fan of semantic as you guys may know so whatever works at whatever grade suits me PEACE

Kevin Pashuk

7 years ago #3

Doh! *developed* (I wish I could edit my comments after I hit Send.)

Kevin Pashuk

7 years ago #2

The greatest compliment I've ever received (aside from the time I was mistaken for Brad Pitt) was a magazine which reviewed a software product I had development. He described it as 'elegant in its simplicity'. I've hung onto that for many years and try to use it as my gold standard for whatever I create. I'm with you Paul \. Writing something that can explain complex things in a simple way is an art form. Hemingway (one M) was a master. His six word novel is a classic example. "For sale. Baby shoes. Never worn."

Paul "Pablo" Croubalian

7 years ago #1

Don Kerr are mentioned in this Buzz

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    Education: · Expérience: · Education · No degree, certificate or diploma · Tasks · Clear and clean tables, trays and chairs · Place dishes in storage area · Replenish condiments and other supplies at tables and serving areas · Sanitize and wash dishes and other items by hand · ...

  • KPMG

    Senior Consultant, Workday

    Found in: Talent CA 2 C2 - 2 weeks ago

    KPMG Vancouver, Canada Full time

    Overview · At KPMG, you'll join a team of diverse and dedicated problem solvers, connected by a common cause: turning insight into opportunity for clients and communities around the world. · KPMG has a significant Workday practice in Canada, with team members across the nation ( ...